Thu, Apr 29, 2010
Eden: It’s an Endless World by ENDO Hiroki
Volume 18 (end) by MANGA UNDERGROUND
Volume 17 by MANGA UNDERGROUND
Volume 16 by MANGA UNDERGROUND
complete series torrent by Various
v17 c118
In celebration of the last volume, our team will try to answer all of your questions related to Eden.
Post your questions as comments and we’ll try our best to explain and fill your memory gap :)
silverado - who has written 303 posts on Manga Underground v3.1.
Biographical Info | Reading: 20th CB, Akumetsu, Ares, Blood Alone, Bokurano, Dragon Head, Eden, G Senjou Heavens Door, Hajime no Ippo, Hotman, Keishi Sokan Asami, Mushishi, Parasite Kiseijuu, Pluto, Pokemon Special, PositioN, REAL, Ravages of Time, Ryuuroden, Shin Angyo Onshi, School of Water Business, Yotsubato, Zetman
Watching: Seirei no Moribito, Moonlight Mile
Likes: Classic Music & TV (You should watch ROME & Blackadder!)
Dislikes: neo-liberalists & pseudo capitalists
Catchphrase: As long as you live, be lighthearted. Let nothing trouble you. Life is only too short and time takes its toll.
Manga Updates
April 29th, 2010 at 1:16 PM
Has there been any reference on who “big sister” is (only shown in the bonus story at the end of volume 1) in later volumes or is it just part of a day dream given the title of the bonus story?
April 29th, 2010 at 1:32 PM
To my knowledge there are no later references to Hannah’s sister. After the attack on the camp Ennoia decides to leave the island with Hannah heading to South America. They move to Hanna’s elder sister and work at the docks, where Ennoia also builds his first drug network.
April 29th, 2010 at 2:29 PM
So how would u say about the end… especially the other universe… did it successfully made, or it failed…
April 29th, 2010 at 10:41 PM
It was created. We are actually living in one. Everyday we wake up we see a new version of what could have been. In other words the world is endless. Everything is a repetition with open ending. Humanity will make the same mistakes, there will be new wars and new conflicts, but it’s not for us to decide whether the future is lifeworthy or not. It’s up to our kids. That’s one of Eden’s epic morals.
April 30th, 2010 at 7:40 AM
I know this one is probably the type of question left up to a reader’s interpretation, but I’d like to know what you think anyway.
Did Sophia ever really love Kenji? I like to think she did, and he wasn’t just a ‘pet’ to her like her daughter explained before she died. Still, I had expected her to tell him just once before she was entirely consumed into the Colloid.
Thoughts?
Talk to me…
.: Lovely, and from the heart :.
April 30th, 2010 at 8:07 AM
The person who loves will be injust to other persons. Love creates egoistic behavior because we prefer one state over another, one relationship over another. Therefor the person without love, Sophia, was actually the best pick to be the next god as she will not be confused by picky selfishness and rightfulness. In order to be neutral one has to abandon love. Love is also one of the first things you learn abandon once you start your education as a Buddhist monk. Don’t long for wealth, power or love. For all this are not constant values. What one can say about Sophia is that when she became a cyborg she actually started to act more humanlike. For people accept changes easier when they alter their outer appearance, or like in Sophias case, her inners. That’s also why women always cut their hair after they broke up with their boyfriends. For Sophia there only a few people with whom she constantly surrounded herself. One was Kenji, although my impression is that she saw him more like a lost little brother, since she was older than him, both in moral and age. She truely cared for him, but not as a woman does for a man, but as a friend does for another. In the end the person Kenji loved was Sophia, since she was the only constant factor in his life besides the war. But it was a asymmetric love. His love for Sophia was also the reason why he rejected Loji at first.
Sophia didn’t tell Kenji that she loved him, because a person who is going to die wouldn’t want to burden another person with his love. She was mature enough to guide Kenji back to his own world. This makes Sophia kinda wise, doesn’t it?
April 30th, 2010 at 10:07 AM
That. is. extraordinarily perceptive! You have no idea how satisfied/impressed I am with your response; I’m so glad I bothered to ask!
I probably should have made my question a little clearer. I never had the idea that Sophia loved Kenji romantically or vice versa. I thought Kenji loved Sophia because she almost acted like the parent he never had, a position his brother couldn’t adequately fulfil and one Kahn would never assume. Likewise, I thought Sophia was always attempting to somewhat redeem herself as mother through caring for Kenji in a way she never could with any other of her real children.
Sophia? Wise? Well, she is named after the Gnostic god of wisdom, right?
Thanks a bunch; I always identified power and wealth as two of greatest discriminatory forces in Eden, but I had never considered the role of love.
Boy! I have, like, a million more questions!
In an earlier chapter, relatively close to when Sophia was first kidnapped I think, Keel spoke of a doctor Zimmerman(?) when telling Sophia his life story. Zimmerman was the person who programmed Maya, is that right? That said, where the hell did Maya even come from? Also, Keel quoted Zimmerman saying, “All children have the right to be happy, all women have the right to be happy, all men have the right to be happy and all that not included among men and women have the right to be happy. And we do not have all those rights.”
It’s a pretty sick quote, but that last bit gets me. Can you shed any light on it for me?
Oh and one last thing, it is Maya standing next to Cherubium on the mountain on the last page right? And not his counterpart (Leitha, I think her name was). Reckon he’s looking at the new world or?
April 30th, 2010 at 6:48 PM
Yes that was a beautiful explanation. I like that interpretation of love the best.
What we view as love in today’s society borders on an ignorant dependence on each other blinding ourselves from our faults and values. Silverado said “the person who loves will be injust to other persons” based on his interpretation of what eden was trying to convey through the characters relationships. I agree because love is not an emotion, it is a bunch of instinctual emotions that control us and have been misinterpreted by many people often mystifying what people think relationships should be. “Love creates egoistic behavior because we prefer one state over another, one relationship over another.” This makes sense but it makes more sense to define love as a combination of feelings that keep people from being truly unbiased, some of which include physical attraction, desire to mate, belonging, appeal to similarities in characteristics and most of all greed.
May 3rd, 2010 at 10:44 AM
So, what was Ennoah’s purpose by going to the colloid at the end? I must be missing something, having read vol. 18 a little while after the other seventeen volumes, but… it seemed kinda purposeless. What did he achieve?
May 3rd, 2010 at 2:02 PM
Well it seems like the longer questions also require longer answers.
@1st question
Maya is a program to prevent the destruction of humankind by converting it to data. The code of Maya eventually became Propatria’s tool of achieving the next step in evolution. The goal was to convince the people into entering the colloide and to prepare them for “departure”. This is very similar to Noah’s arc. Analogously , the prophet is Zimmerman who received god’s code to rescue mankind. His last quote symbolizes this philosophy of equal love, that in a perfect world all beings possess the right for happiness, but he realizes that this world can never achieve unitary happiness, as long as we are physical separated. Only by giving up our physical boundaries and collecting all wisdom of humankind one can achieve equal happiness. Zimmermann’s conclusion was Maya. When Eliah found Keel’s and Sophia’s child corpse and the disc containing the code for Maya, he made his own copy which was later found and transferred into a real brain and body, which became known as Lethia Aletheia which is greek and means “The True Origin” or “The truth lies in the origin”. Maya on the other hand has multiple meanings for the Hindu it refers to concepts of “illusion”. Wikipedia says Maya, is the principal concept which manifests, perpetuates and governs the illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe. For some mystics this manifestation is real. Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean. The goal of enlightenment is to understand this — more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the Universe is a false dichotomy(!). The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body, is the result of an unenlightened perspective. So while Maya tries to dissolve the physical boundaries and collect the souls to the spiritworld and find true happiness in another universe, Lethia tries to find the truth among the living beings on earth.
From the story’s time frame we can assume that the coder Zimmermann worked on Maya before Sophia’s recruitment by Keel, otherwise she would have known him personally. (all great hackers know each other like the hackers of Chaos Computer Club) It’s also said that Zimmermann wrote the whole code in one go before committing suicide. The clue is that he wrote a program at a time that could not be run on any existing computer technology. The complex algorithm to simulate an A.I. requires a Quantum Computer to run, which creates an interesting question about how he was able to raise a chicken without having the egg? The answer can only be theorized. There are certain computer models that simulate problems in mathematics and physics that can be programmed relatively easily but would require massive calculation power, that’s why many specialized computers have the program hardcoded in the cpu itself, like the big astro watch towers, who have to process hundreds of gigabytes per hour while scanning the sky. Or the 3 moving gravity objects problem used to simulate planetes, all those problems are very very hardware hungry. If Zimmermann was able to find some complex formulas that are easy to understand but very very difficult to calculate, he might have been able to successfully simulate a living being or even a soul. One cannot stop thinking that another entity, maybe god, helped him with it.
@2nd question
Erm I don’t have the last volume on this laptop so I can’t tell for sure, maye you could upload the related image. I do think to remember that it was Lethia who stayed at earth and not Maya.
@3rd question
Ennoia was one of the old Propatria members. When he discovered Propatria’s secret project Pleroma among secret documents, he decides to leave the group and to fight them on his own, while building world wide drug networks to fund his battle. Pleroma was also translated in previous volumes as “play roma”, Roma as in the ethical group who moves across lands like nomads). He was also the one of the few with perfect immunity against the new variant of the disclosure virus, the colloide virus. The other one being the bad guy and Sophia.
PS: Ennoia didn’t go in the colloid. He was wounded and stayed on earth, listening to the song he danced with Hannah, the same time his gay uncle died.
To prevent confusion here is a short timeline about the development of Propatria.
Gnostic -> releases disclosure virus and overthrow local governments -> World divided in Propatria and Nomands (non Propatrian states) -> colloide destroys the remnants of Nomands government -> Foundation of the World Government
May 5th, 2010 at 3:50 PM
I was going to ask for information about Maya and Lethia but that answer is more that enough and yes in the end Maya and Cherubium are watching the new world…and I have a silly question who are the persons in the tomb of Helena and the end…I know that they were important but I don’t manage remember who are those.
Sorry for my english.
May 5th, 2010 at 6:07 PM
The woman is Helena’s colleague Naomi (volume 6) and the guy is Yasu, her boyfriend. Yasu works for Tony and appears after Helena’s death in Volume 10.
May 8th, 2010 at 8:00 AM
i re read volume 1 & 18 while listening people get ready,
beautiful and sad.
‘carrying the burden of guilt, that’ll be my role to play’
-ennoia ballard-
he played this role perfectly
May 11th, 2010 at 11:01 PM
Did anyone notice Miriam wearing that same stupid hat she wears on the island three years later visiting the graves???
Do you think she kept it on all this time, or is it a different hat altogether maybe???
May 12th, 2010 at 7:55 AM
haha, great question!
i think she probably takes it off when she goes to bed
May 12th, 2010 at 11:54 AM
I think it’s due to the author’s inability to draw many different kinds of women hats, just like Kube Tite can’t draw different faces and has to rely on different hair styles to make the clones distinguishable!
May 12th, 2010 at 12:58 PM
Did anyone notice that Miriam eventually changes her hairstyle? She starts with having it parted in the middle and then it goes to a side fringe. The side fringe is a much better look for her I think.
In light of the latest question, perhaps Miriam was yet again experimenting with a new hairstyle, though had not completely settled on one, and did not want to look stupid in front of Naomi, who always has nice hair.
But yeah, the hat is fugly… she looked stupid anyway!!!
P.S. Was anyone else hell devo that Kenji and Loji didn’t make an appearance for the curtain call speech at the end? That babe of a scientist did with her bearded fellow… sad.
Talk to me,
.: Lovely, and from the Heart :.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:35 PM
a lot of mangaka seem to suffer from the “character cloning” syndrome.
even a super talented artist like Hiroaki Samura has lots of characters in different titles that have the same faces.
endo’s characters in allrounder meguru are very similar to the eden ones, even in personality.
May 13th, 2010 at 9:40 AM
Speaking of Meguru, I like Eden a whole lot better. The characters in Meguru just seem weak and shallow, with perhaps the exception of Meguru’s childhood friend (forgot his name), but he reminds me of Kenji anyway… There seems to be too much about mix martial arts, with not enough foucus on story or characterisation. So yeah, shame Eden ended.
May 13th, 2010 at 11:41 AM
im really enjoying meguru. but yeah you’re right, the characters are similar.
there hasnt been enough time to have a lot of character development yet though.eden had 18 volumes to do it, meguru is only on the 3rd, and the volumes are shorter (i think)
it IS a martial arts manga remember! endo is obv interested in fighting, its evident in the fights in eden.
the newest chapters of meguru are providing some character insight, lets hope it continues. im gonna read it no matter what anyway, probably! :P
oh and you forgot your usual signature. ;)
May 14th, 2010 at 9:10 AM
Ahahaha!
Yeah, my signature, well, it’s pretty cold in Australia at night these days. So the less typing I have to do, the better. :P
Yeah, defs gonna keep reading Meguru but Eden’s was the kinda manga where as soon as you started reading it, you knew it was awesome; really hooked you from the word go. Still, Meguru is a cut above most manga. Worth reading over a lot of other stuff.
Talk to me,
.: Lovely, and from the Heart :.
P.S.
Wrote it especially that time for you mono!!! =P
May 16th, 2010 at 5:19 PM
Thanks for this great release. The ending somehow made me cry, no idea why. Guess i’ll be pondering about the implications of the messages contained in the story for quite some time.
Peace,
Spread
May 16th, 2010 at 10:18 PM
Hi
Thanks for this relase, but i don’t know why i can’t finish downloading volume 18. can anyone upload the volume 18 on other support in stead of mediafire please ?
sounds abit strange because i downloaded the 17e without problem although.
Hance
May 18th, 2010 at 4:21 AM
So who created the colloid in the first place? Was it Propatria or Maya or nature? And I doubt that Maya was created by Zimmermann alone.It’s been told as if he was created by some being or someone more than human.Ennoia also tells him to tell his “master” that humanity will overcome its shortcomings and I doubt that he refers to Zimmermann with the master part.
So I presume even if the new universe is created the people who “live” in that universe lack phsyical form and only exist as collective consciousness and Sophia is the one who controls all.It seems like an absurd situation. On another note I hated that Enoia died and Kenji lived at the end.I never liked Kenji since the beginning yet I really liked Enoia.Kwnji is too much of an exaggareted character imo.
May 18th, 2010 at 10:57 AM
There are no direct references about the creater of the colloid virus. The disclosure virus is a bioengineered virus designed by Gnostic and released by early Propatria. At that time Propatria was the executive organ of Gnostic. Later it becomes the puppet government controlled by Gnostic. The Disclosure virus disables immune system and converts cells into crystals and therefor the beta phase of the later Colloid virus. The Colloid virus is the crystalline form of the virus that first appeared in developing countries as a mutation of to the disclosure virus. Through the new semi conducting capability it served Maya as giant photon computer and hard disc to store information. Huge fiber optic cables connected the continent and enabled information exchange. So one can tell that the disclosure virus was created by Gnostic, but the Colloid virus was controlled by Maya so it’s a cocreation of both humans and the artificial intelligence.
The manga’s targeted market is the Japanese reader and one big part of it are the military otakus. The ultimate fighting machine is therefor as much Japanese as Rambo is American. But one can tell that the manga strives to be unpatriotic as possible. You see no Japanese military units, generals or other manga clichés. The author tries to tell the story from a broad perspective from where the world has already begun to merge into one big politicial institution and how this affected single individuals like Ennoa.
May 18th, 2010 at 4:56 PM
I can’t tell if I had trouble with the anti-hero aspect of the main characters, or if I simply misunderstood a lot of what happened. (And excuse my lack of memory for remembering names)First, wasn’t the gay uncle like a kidnapper? I thought he wanted to take the children away from Enoia’s parents out of spite/jealousy. And wasn’t the Uncle somehow responsible for the disclosure virus? I thought he said something like humanity needed to start over. This is where I’m confused, because Enoia’s father was with Propatria, who was more or less responsible for disclosure/colloid viruses…if that is right, why would Propatria attack the island with the uncle and children if their intentions are the same? On second thought, it may just be easier if someone can explain how siege by Propatria on the island, and what the uncle’s true intentions were.
Second, aren’t Enoia and his Wife brother and sister? Why did nobody in the book recognize this or judge him based on this? Considering the not-so-subtle role prejudice played in this book, it seems odd that the incest wasn’t mentioned….unless I am once again wrong and they weren’t blood related.
Finally, and I apologize for the multiple questions, did you find that the main characters were all terrible, terrible people? Kenji is an indiscriminate assassin; Enoia is a Drug Lord (and we saw firsthand the effects drugs had on the characters…including his own son); Eliah turned into a murdering drug addict; Sophia…well, yeah. Propatria was just as bad. I don’t see how anybody’s actions were justifed, even if the intent was theoretically moral (perfect example: rescuing Mana by driving through a walkway of innocent bystanders). The story almost romanticized these criminal actions. What is the point of making the few truly righteous people powerless against the morally bankrupt? And why should the reader feel sympathy for the criminals? Even at the end, I was going along with the plot hoping Enoia would stop the main villain(?) (who I still don’t know where the hell he came from), and I remembered what Enoia had done in the past (patricide, murder, drugs, etc.) so I was fine with Enoia’s death. The plot referenced real life situations (African genocide/religious conflicts), but what is the mangaka suggesting we do? If you can’t beat them, join them? Eye for an Eye? Kill ‘em all and let God sort them out? I know there is no easy answer, but this manga left me feeling very ambiguous about right and wrong.
May 18th, 2010 at 6:35 PM
Lane Morris was Chris Ballard’s best friend. They went to school together and when Chris entered Propatria and worked on the disclosure virus project, he knew that he could count on Lane to create a serum. But Lane Morris had doubts and cursed the whole world, wanted to “reset and reboot the world.”, as this world was full of discrimination and injustice. He decides to give Chris the fake virus. After Chris assassinated a leading politician and got infected with the disclosure virus, he realized that the virus was not working. That’s why he had to return to research island and test the blood of the two children: Ennoia and Hannah. They were the only children with a perfect immunity against the disclosure virus. They were both children from important politicians of Propatria, staying in the capsule to survive the epidemic until a serum was found. One of the staff member in the research facility was Lt. Meyer, an American officer who lost his mother and brother to the disclosure virus. He hated the children and people chosen, who were allowed to live in this facility, protected from the virus. He reprogrammed Cherubim which went berserk and killed nearly all scientists of the facility. (The few surviving scientists were Lane Morris and Linda Aurique – Chris Ballard’s wife.) Meyer opens the air filter and destroys the facility. After that he commits suicide.
Quote of Meyer: “We are hypocritical cowards. The virus is a judgment from god. Only the superior children will survive. What an arrogant nazi idea! God is going to start over from the beginning!”
Later Hannah married Ennoia and took his surname. They weren’t blood related. Heck, they don’t even have the same hair color -_-
As to what this manga was about, if you can’t figure it out by yourself, then you are probably spoilt from hollywood and other mindless crap. Ignorance is a gift to the mindless.
May 20th, 2010 at 4:37 PM
Ya – just finished reading the last vol now –
wow
I agree that it felt a bit rushed at the end like he was trying to wrap up an epic story on a limited time line- maybe there will be a part 2?
After the big laser shot off (bust? lol) my thought would have been that the colliod would crumble and disappear as it should have fullfilled its purpose in that moment
What i am still hung up on is that ya – Maya did not enter the colliod again until after the big bang – and i am 98% certain that was him on the cliff with bigC and not Lethia
What will be the future of the Colloid? is Maya hanging around just to see if what Ennoia said pans out?
while we’re at it even, what did happen to Lethia?
Oh and ya – im a little peeved at the whole Moon man shows up on earth and becomes big bad guy of the colloid – that was a bit of a stretch but i guess it helped show how far we had come in getting to the moon and creating a base and how far we had fallen but having to abandon that base – i sure how the space station made it! lol
Anyway – this need 2-3 more vol methinks
May 20th, 2010 at 6:36 PM
Well that wasn’t really a question, was it. Anyway, glad ya read it till the end.
May 20th, 2010 at 7:00 PM
That is definitely Lethia at the end standing with Cherubim.She’s wearing a skirt and so far we never saw Maya with girlish clothes.What I’ve been wondering who is the master of Maya whom Ennoia referred to.Oh and there definitely won’t be a part 2 or something if you’re still not satisfied with the ending that’s your problem.
May 20th, 2010 at 7:09 PM
Bah – cant be Lethia at the end – no little hair thingies means its Maya
May 22nd, 2010 at 3:35 AM
Yeah, actually, Cobra makes a good point. The black vest was always characteristic of Maya, so it’s probably Lethia.
June 1st, 2010 at 3:41 PM
I’m looking for color covers of vol. 15-17
Are they available anywhere?
June 1st, 2010 at 7:51 PM
apparantly not, as those volumes were only available as magazine scans. (i think)
if you find them please let us know!
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:52 AM
I was only able to google some LQ/MQ covers from online shops.
Well, at least it’s decent enough to generate nice thumbs in ComicRack:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2861/edenlist.jpg
Here’s the best I could find:
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9255/cover17c.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/697/cover15c.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1787/cover16c.jpg
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 AM
theyre not bad at all. thanks!
June 22nd, 2010 at 1:21 PM
This site has a very nice collection
of covers http://mangahelpers.com/gallery/
and doesn’t have a volume 16. Thanks Q.
I am still looking for full size Japanese volume 16 and 18 covers.
And thank you very much MU for the series.
November 4th, 2010 at 4:39 AM
LoL! It’s certain that is Lethia in the end page! Besides the dress, SHE HAVE TITIES!!!!XD, i really loved the twist from the plot, i will never imagine that end! I have to say that1s is a awesome manga! When i read the 1° volume i knew this manga could be very good, and it was better than I expected, i will recomend the “Endo Short Stories” and “All-Rounder Meguru” too! But really in “Eden” Endo has excelled!!
Sorry for my bad english
“Kenji is sooooooo cool!”
November 4th, 2010 at 12:48 PM
I am very grateful for the Endo not have killed Kenji and leaving him to have a good participation at the end XD
My question is…. why Maya is so interested in Mana?
March 11th, 2011 at 9:24 AM
no q but just a thumbs up. been a damn long time since i read a manga of this quality, i started reading this quite some time ago and after a long pause i found out it was finished. it game me the same quality and satisfaction i get when i read real quality work like akira or blade ofthe immortal. lets hope blade of the immortal and berserk finish some time in the future fo me to witness.
also meguru isnt anywhere near the quality of this one in terms of everything, art, characters, depth alll that.
May 22nd, 2011 at 2:00 PM
Do you still answer questions?
May 22nd, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Why was Elijah sent to middle of nowhere to hide with no protection except for a robot.Since his father is powerful drug lord he could easily arrange a better place and better protection for Elijah.later why did they make him stay in an old brothel instead of a more suitable place like a hotel or with one of the associates of his father.
May 25th, 2011 at 12:15 PM
Yes, I still answer questions occasionally.
@cobra
- After his family was assaulted by Propatria agents only, Eliah was rescued and managed to escape. He was sent to the middle of nowhere to hide and training basic survival skills.
- The town where Eliah stayed was controlled by Tony and therefor safe. Since Hannah was the only person who knew Eliah’s true identity, Tony entrusted Eliah to her “guidance”.
May 28th, 2011 at 12:39 PM
Thanks for the answer but I still think his father could help Elijah in a better way but the way he treats him makes me think he doesn’t love him that much or care about as much as he cares about his wife.
May 28th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
His father is an internationally wanted terrorist and a drug lord. Which sane dad takes his young son with him and exposes him to danger? Keeping his son away from danger is a realistic scenario.
May 28th, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Wll ı couldn’t exactly sending a child to middle of nowhere with virtually no protection except for a robot.Being a powerful drug lord I’m sure a person could arrange better conditions for his own son.
May 28th, 2011 at 5:04 PM
Coorecting my previous sentence;
“Well, I wouldn’t exactly call sending a child to middle of nowhere with virtually no protection except for a robot, a smart move.”